I've heard this argument before, by people who are discussing the problems inherent in illegal immigration and amnesty. "It's as if they just walk into your house and say, 'I live here now; feed me!'" I'm not sure how it happened, but that argument developed in my brain until it became a possible solution for the problem we are currently facing: what do we do with the illegal immigrants who are already here?
Most of us can definitely agree that illegal immigration should be stopped, and we need to secure our borders. We face a plethora of problems, as simple as workers sneaking over the border to send money back home and as compelling as terrorists and human traffickers plying their trade in our cities. Right now, we are being given two main options in dealing with this problem: Amnesty and Deportation. Just yesterday, Eric Cantor was ousted in his primary by a candidate who ran on the Republican platform and only disagreed with Cantor on one issue: he favored deportation over amnesty.
This is the problem: Not all illegal immigrants are alike.
On one end of the spectrum, you have Jose (I'm making up names as examples here), a fellow in his fifties whose mother brought him in when he was three years old. Unaware for all of this time that he entered the country illegally, he has gone through the school system, apprenticed with a plumber, earned an associate's degree in business, and now works as a residential plumber as well. He owns his own home and pays both income and property tax. He knows retirement is drawing near, and he has been contributing to Social Security all his working years. He has just celebrated his twenty-fifth wedding anniversary with his lovely wife, and he has two grandchildren.
On the other end of the spectrum, you have Luis. He slipped into the country five years ago, because he saw an opportunity by which to earn a lot of money. Now he funnels teenaged girls from one station to another. They have been lied to; they believe that they will be married to rich American men, but they are about to learn that these men are going to shackle them to a wall in the basement and threaten them with deportation if they try to escape. As for himself, Luis is on Medicaid and receives food stamps in a state that does not check citizenship status for either. He's living off the fat of the land, and figures that he can become a secret millionaire by the end of the year.
Most people on the side of amnesty will agree that Luis is a problem. They are willing to sacrifice having Luis here if it means not deporting Jose. Most people on the side of deportation will agree that Jose is not a problem. They are willing to sacrifice deporting Jose if it means deporting Luis. I would like to offer a third way forward, and to do so, I would like to look at the old common laws regarding Adverse Possession, or squatter's law.
According to squatter's law, it is possible, but not easy, to gain ownership of a property that belonged to someone else. Squatting is not as simple as living secretly in the structure. To gain ownership, you have to live on the property openly, act as if you are the owner, and improve the property for your own use. You must maintain this 'ownership' for a number of years without being so much as challenged by the actual owner, and you must not conceal your possession from the owner. One good way to do this is to move into a vacant home and have the electricity turned back on in your name. If you have spent several years (the exact number depends on the state) paying the electrical and telephone bills, paying the property taxes to the town, and repairing the home, then you can go to the town hall and file for the title. If you are evicted from the land, or even if the owner tries to evict you from the land, your counter is reset to zero.
I would argue that our failure to oust Jose (in my example) is our problem, not his. I would like to offer guidelines for a sort of "amnesty" based on squatter's laws. We should unquestionably secure our borders and do a better job of preventing illegals from sneaking in. My solution is meant for the ones who are already here.
I propose that, if an illegal immigrant has lived openly in the United States for a period of years (I am flexible as to the specific number, but I recommend at least ten), has not committed any serious crime (I wouldn't count traffic violations, for instance), and has paid taxes and FICA, and the U.S. government has not at any time required him to so much as attend a court hearing on his immigration status. he should be granted legal immigration status. Note that this is not the same as offering full citizenship. He is now 'in the system', and can work towards citizenship if he so chooses, or face the general paperwork and cost involved in extending his stay.
As much as I hate the way the liberals twist and misuse the term "fairness", I find myself using the term in this instance. I do believe that it is honestly fair to consider squatter's law in cases like Jose's. The greatest benefit I can see with this system is that it will give illegal immigrants a disincentive to engaging in crime and an incentive to paying taxes. Right now, since they are 'already criminals' who might be deported (or ignored), there is little to prevent them from dealing drugs or engaging in other profitable crime. Under a 'squatter's law' system, the aspiring illegal immigrant may say, "There's no way I am going to deal drugs now. I'm two years away from filing for legal status, and if I'm caught selling, that goes right out the window." In addition, this proposal would better allow immigration officials to concentrate on the Luis's, because when Luis and Jose are considered utterly equal, going after Jose is much easier and better for their numbers. Depending on the way the law is written, it may also pave the way for diminishing or removing the hold that slavers have over their prey, which in turn will give law enforcement officers a powerful tool in cornering the actual criminals hiding easily in the illegal immigrant population.
I would love to see Republicans pushing this solution. The population that make up the majority of our illegal immigrants are, in matters of social issues and (among the Joses') work ethic, are the Republicans' natural allies.
They *should* be the republican's natural allies.
ReplyDeleteHowever, for reasons that are beyond me - (and I have had friends in the sector for ancedotal but not solid :) evidence.) a large proportion of them would (or do) vote democrat.
Your plan is not a bad one. Its biggest problem is that actual enforcement would be difficult. We can't (or don't, or some combination of the two) enforce the laws we *currently* have on the books.
I think I can best explain it this way - my buddy's wife is Fillipino. She's an immigrant. She's Catholic and if you talk to her obviously socially and fiscally conservative.
But before she could vote, and had earned her citizenship, she was solidly a democrat supporter. Tyler - who is about as far right as a person can get, finally sat down and they talked about it. Ty has a masters in Sociology and actually did his discertation on the Phillipines so had some basis to start from. It all comes down to - in the Phillipines, as is often the case in Mexico as well - people do not necessarily trust the goverment - but are constantly trying to effectively fleece it and get their piece of the pie.
They may work hard, for what they earn, but they're always looking for a way to get *more* from the governement to suppliment. (there are various levels of this). It often boils down to getting more for your family as well.
When you make a concerted arguement that self reliance, hard work, and small government can get them more (and is more in line with much of what they believe) then a government take takes and gives (little) back - you can convert them. But it took us almost seven years to do it with Ty's wife. I don't think the Republican's will engage them that well.
In that case... sad as it is - expulsion (with better opportunitys for legal immigration) is a 'safer' path then giving the Democrats a free voting block.
You can go back to the Amnesty of the Eighties to see what happened when Regan agreed to do it.
He knows retirement is drawing near, and he has been contributing to Social Security all his working years.
ReplyDeleteMy identity was stolen by a ring who provides such things to illegals.
(it got blown up before my credit was destroyed-- thankfully, my car didn't have anything with any part of my SSN on it in there when it was broken into; it is apparently now standard to steal all papers that may have identity information, because that's worth more than the radio)
If Jose has been paying into Social Security, then he has also been using someone else's identity. One wonders why it wasn't noticed when he signed up for Selective Service, unless it was one of those rings that steals newborns' (or the newly dead's) information and sells it.
I know the few cases where I've seen it claimed that people had no idea they were illegals, they find out either when they get a job or when they sign up for the draft, because that's when the identity theft is discovered. It also takes a lot of digging to find that, since they're pushed by people who will claim that of course they had no idea they weren't legal citizens.
"illegal immigrants" pose a problem in America? Well I read your comment on Domestic Felicity about the situation in Gaza and saw your support of the Israeli massacre taking place there. Perhaps it would be good to have one or two lessons in history and see what the Israeli illegal immigrants have done in Palestine since 1984.
ReplyDeleteAlso concerning your comments on the Israeli Army being kind and full of mercy, I advise you to take a look at what an Israeli sniper boasts of, in regards to his killing 13 children and wanting to kill more....(An Instagram post by an Israel Defense Forces sniper boasts of murdering 13 Gazan children in one day. An IDF Combat Engineering Corps Soldier, specifically, David D. Ovadia posed with a Barrett .50 caliber sniper rifle.)
http://www.hangthebankers.com/israeli-sniper-brags-about-killing-13-palestinian-children/
Also please take a look at an article written, but later deleted ,from the "Israel Times" saying that sometimes "Genocide" is permissible...oh I just cant believe such crude words, GENOCIDE....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/01/times-of-israel-genocide-article-post-deleted_n_5641971.html
"SAMSON OPTION"
and by the way since you keep on praying for the welfare of Israel please make sure you get to fully understand what the "Samson Option" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option) means, and if you want to see how serious the Israelis are in using this option? ask Anna to write something about it from her completely "unbiased" point of view..
Cheers
p.s. don't limit yourself to just visiting the addresses I sent you, go on and Google for yourself.
by the way are you a good Christian? read for yourself what the native Christian brothers and sisters of Palestine have to say. You can easily Google their names and contact them in person so don't just accept what I say, ask them for yourself, THEN make judgements.
ReplyDeleteHere is how Israeli Christians feel they are being treated in Israel :
(http://mondoweiss.net/2012/03/the-myth-of-israels-favorable-treatment-of-palestinian-christians.html)
Fida Jiryis on March 15, 2012 :
"The myth of Israel’s favorable treatment of Palestinian Christians"
(the following is some parts of the article)
The myth of Israel’s favorable treatment of Palestinian Christians
Fida Jiryis on March 15, 2012 66
Amb. Michael Oren’s article, ‘Israel and the Plight of Mideast Christians,’ presents Israel as a tolerant, dove-like, and peaceful democracy. This is belied by the facts.
I am one of those Palestinian Christians living inside Israel to whom Oren refers. At no time in my life have I ever felt the ‘respect and appreciation’ by the Jewish state, which Oren so glowingly references. Israel’s Christian minority is marginalized in much the same manner as its Muslim one or, at best, quietly tolerated. We suffer the same discrimination when we try to find a job, when we go to hospitals, when we apply for bank loans, and when we get on the bus — in the same way as Palestinian Muslims.
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Oren’s statement that ‘The extinction of the Middle East’s Christian communities is an injustice of historic magnitude’ is outright shocking to anyone familiar with even the basic history of how Israel was founded.
I would like to remind him and others that this founding expelled thousands of Palestinian Christians from their homes in 1948 and displaced them, either forcing them to flee across the border or making them internal refugees.
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My cousin’s husband, Maher, is from Iqrith, a village a few miles from mine in the Galilee. His family, and all of Iqrith’s inhabitants, were expelled from their village in 1948 and Iqrith was razed to the ground by Israeli forces on Christmas eve, 1950, in a special ‘Christmas gift’ to its people. The timing of this destruction leaves one to wonder at the intended message.
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His claim that ‘In Jerusalem, the number of Arabs–among them Christians–has tripled since the city’s reunification by Israel in 1967’ fails to mention Israel’s relentless policies of cracking down on Jerusalem: building unending settlements; building a Separation Wall that slices right through the city, severing its families, neighborhoods and businesses and hitting hard at its Arab economy; seizing Arab lands and expelling families that have lived on them for generations; and revoking the citizenship of any Palestinian resident who travels abroad for too long.
Imagine the outcry if an American citizen traveled abroad for two years and upon return discovered that his citizenship was revoked and that he had lost his American ID and passport.
Well I read your comment on Domestic Felicity about the situation in Gaza and saw your support of the Israeli massacre taking place there.
ReplyDeleteDang it, did your Howling Moonbat repellent expire?
At least they were polite enough to open with such an obvious break with reality; no need to read the blog post they decided to post in the comments, even if you can stand the breach of manners of going to someone's blog to fly off about a comment elsewhere. Suggests they knew that it wouldn't be effective at the location they saw it.
If you decide to clean up the splat, feel free to delete my response as well; I have trouble letting psychotic liars spread their filth without response, especially when the cost is nothing but a few moments of my time.
Alright, mee, let me be clear.
DeleteBased on something I said on a Facebook group on another page, you have decided to single me out and hunt me down on a post made about illegal immigration in the U.S. in order to call me a bunch of names, make a bunch of assumptions, and infer that there will only be peace if I follow only the few sources that you follow and come to the exact same conclusion as you when I follow them.
The conclusion? That dem dirty Jews deserve to have dozens of rockets per day aimed at their kindergartens, because they can't tell the difference between a Gazan Muslim and a Gazan Christian on sight, *or* they do not trust these people, who chant "from the river to the sea" (meaning the mass extermination of Israelis) and use mentally-challenged women as suicide bots, to not dress like a Christian in order to get a bomb that much closer to their children.
Hon, if I was the kind of person who changed my mind and followed blindly after anybody who insulted me if I did not, I wouldn't have been *on* the LAF page to begin with. The people I hang with, I do so because I have independently researched and agreed with their claims, but they happen to have the side-benefit that they do not begin a conversation by insulting me for not following them immediately like a brainwashed little sheep.
You have sadly mistaken who I am, what I know, and how I know it. Had you taken a moment to engage me as if I was a human being to be conversed with instead of an idiot to be led by the nose, you might have learned some fascinating things about what I know about both Israel and Gaza and why.
Too bad, so sad.
meeAugust 9, 2014 at 4:04 AM
ReplyDeletePsychotic liars are those who lie to themselves and don't take the trouble to go after the truth.
Precisely why I say you are one.
I did not understand what you were implying by the “facebook page” reference, but I understand that you are steadfast in your beliefs and want no change, so I fare thee well, I’ll go my way, you yours…
ReplyDeleteYou mentioned "Domestic Felicity", also known as "Ladies Against Feminism", before this page. As I have not commented on the blog page for ages, I could only assume that you had found something I said on their Facebook page with which you disagreed.
DeleteWhat, did you just fly by, spot this random blog from nowhere, in which I have not been discussing the war effort *at all*, and just magically divine my supposed opinion on the issue of Israeli Jews, Christians, and Arabs vs. Gazan Arabs and Christians before doing the "seagull commenting" thing, based on something I wrote two months ago about honoring an ancient Anglo-Saxon common law when dealing with South Americans in the United States?
As I noted above, if you had engaged me like a human being instead of treating me like an idiot you have to lead by the nose, because you supposedly have magic powers to figure out the background, belief system, and reasoning capabilities of anybody you just met, you might have learned something.
Reconsider your approach next time.
Dear Rose, what I wrote was in response to your comment on domestic felicity NOT of two months ago but of about 3 days before I visited your blog and put up my comment, your comment was posted on 3rd of August and my first comment on your blog was on 6th of August. The reason why I decided to write on your blog was exactly because of your naive and absolutely biased attitude in that comment, and your comment made me both sad and angry, the only reason I came here to tell you about it is that Anna deleted what I posted on the situation of Christian minorities in Israel and I wasn't sure that she would publish my "other" comments...I am a reader of her blog but unfortunately she has proven to be very selective in allowing literally 'anything' other than what she deems 'proper'.. sad on her part.
ReplyDeleteI admire you for being different though, in your policy regarding your blog.
By the way I did not imagine you as what you have written treating me like an idiot you have to lead by the nose and I have no magic powers to figure out your background, but reading through your posts and comments quiet easily gives any reader a very clear view of your mindset.
Anyway as I said before, you seem very steadfast in your views and I don't want to upset you. I just wish you all the best and am sure that Truth is the ultimate winner.
this is the comment, I in fact replied to,
Blogger Gothelittle Rose said...
I hear this over and over again, "War doesn't solve the problem." I disagree. War has solved the majority of conflicts in the world throughout time, and it is after periods of war that we have seen the longest and most useful periods of peace.
It goes along the same line as those who say, "Spanking doesn't work." Of course spanking works. So does war. It lets someone who refuses to govern himself know that, if he will not make the effort, other people will; and he will almost certainly not like their methods. It is not the only method, and not always the best method, but it cannot be denied in cases such as this when all other methods have not only failed, but worsened the situation.
When you have a bully on the playground, any other method you use, peacemaking, withdrawing, offering goodies, will not work because he has become the type of person who takes advantage of you in order to control you. Anything you offer him will be seen as a sign of weakness and used to tighten his grip upon your neck. The only thing he will respond to is a swift and strong flattening. Then you have the opportunity to extend your mercy and your peace, and he, being humbled, is more likely to accept it. Then you can have peace, and give him a chance to learn how to be part of society.
The Gazan Palestinians used child labor, resulting in child injuries and deaths, to take concrete that Israel *gave* them to build houses for their people and reinforce tunnels into Israel for the express purpose of kidnapping and killing Israeli children.
There is no way I will personally be content with any less than the precise type of curb-stomping that I know Israel excels in providing, in which they minimize casualties among a population that Hamas leaders are deliberately offering up as sacrificial lambs (did you readers know that Hamas actually kills women and children of families that refuse to bow to them, and then blames it on Israel?) so that there will be a people left to receive the hand of mercy when they are capable of responding to it like a reasonable person.
Go for it. I cheer when Israel meets force with force because I know that the Israelis, unlike the Palestinians, will mourn every fallen child... on both sides.
August 03, 2014
Okay, let me get this straight.
DeleteFrom reading my blog, you know for a fact exactly how I stand on Israel.
Therefore, you think I don't care one bit about Christians, only Jews. After all, I couldn't *actually* be a Christian, could I?
That justifies you trying to 'correct' me on a post about illegal immigration from Mexico.
I think you need to look at a map.
And your 'evidence'? Go look at the Ladies Against Feminism blog and find me the link to the Ladies Against Feminism post I supposedly wrote this in reply to. Go ahead... I'll wait.
oh for goodness sake!!!!!
ReplyDeleteHow many times do I have to tell you I DID NOT WRITE IN RESPONSE TO 'ANYTHING' YOU WROTE ON LAF...... I wrote in response to YOUR COMMENT on Domestic Felicity's post "Israel's "fault": not enough civilian deaths" I pasted your comment in the above...go up and take a look----phew----
...and I commented on a post about illegal immigration because the Israelis ARE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS full stop.
and yes I wanted you to
And this is why I rarely delete comments from my page. For gems like this.
DeleteListen up, folks!
"Mee" here chose this post to comment on, because s/he believes that the Jews don't belong in Israel at all!
S/he believes that Israel has the same right to exist as the South Americans have the right to break our laws and sneak across our border in order to demand that we let them stay!
Oh, but s/he doesn't hate Jews, oh no. S/he just doesn't want them in Israel.
So how do people who believe this think? Well, if "mee" is any indication, then they believe that you are willing to abandon the entirety of Biblical history and turn against your own ancestry and heritage as long as you're told that the Israelites treat Gazan Christians with the same caution as Gazan Muslims. Mee, do you honestly believe that's all it's gonna take?
How do you think Christian Nazis were treated in WW2? How do you think Christian slavemasters were treated in the Civil War? How do you think Christian Iraqis were treated during Operation Sword? How do you think Christian Iranians were treated during the Iran-Iraq War? How do you think Christian Japanese were treated at Hiroshima? How do you think that Christian Kenyans of the Luo tribe are currently being treated?
Did you know that in Europe and the U.S., the number of Jews is falling annually as they move to Israel, because in every other country where they reside, they are the #1 victim of civilian hate crime? Take a look at how anti-Zionists, the group in which you proudly claim membership, treat Jews.
Before you dare to come onto my blog and tell me to "correct" my mindset, you had better learn a *lot* of history, geography, and current events.
Oh, I should have made myself more clear on my second-to-last paragraph.
DeleteIn mentioning the troubles that Jews face in every country besides Israel, I have now given you, 'mee', an even higher level of argument that you gave me. If you are not a hypocrite, then you must now "correct" your mindset and turn 100% Zionist, because Jews are treated badly in other countries.
*applauds*
DeleteYep, way more patient than I am.
and yes, I wanted you to know that there are many people out there with different outlooks than yours and that if you really were after the truth you should "correct" your mindset and for one instance speak to flesh and blood Christians who are being marginalized and harassed by the zionists, and by the way I am against zionism but NOT anti-Jewish, zionism is a secular political entity while Judaism is a Godly religion.
ReplyDeleteand here's one from the Haaretz :(http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israeli-society-is-tainted-by-racism-1.408251)
ReplyDeleteIsraeli society is tainted by racism
Our muted reaction to the treatment of Ethiopian-Israelis in Kiryat Malakhi is a silence that damns us all.
By Anshel Pfeffer | Jan. 20, 2012 | 1:18 AM
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Of course we can't be close to a racist. Even when it's not people we personally know, if they resemble us at all - not members of a closed and blinkered community or citizens of some other backward country, but just ordinary people - we don't want to believe they are racists. Racism is a heinous crime, like being a murderer. Only twisted and depraved individuals are capable of it, not people like you and me.
The very idea that 120 homeowners in Kiryat Malakhi, ordinary mainstream Israelis, signed a secret undertaking not to sell or rent their apartments to Israeli-Ethiopian families - as reported by Channel 2 last week - is so awful that I really want to believe the denials, as faint as they are. A few residents who were prepared to voice crude and vulgar opinions on screen can be explained away as ill-educated misfits, but 120 of them? But the fact remains, not one Israeli-Ethiopian lives in those four new apartment towers, though some have tried to rent there. And this in a town with a sizable Ethiopian community that suffers housing shortages.
And dear Rose it seems that Israel is not 'that much' of a safe haven for Jews after all! at least not for All Jews, a select group of them maybe, but there are many Jews who feel helpless and wronged by the state of Israel, the state that was once established to be a refuge and a homeland for All Jews--of course that is unless you ALSO believe that a darker color of the skin or the geographic background of their ancestors can make some Jews 'LESS" Jewish!
I will not write here again, I have said enough and the rest is up to you and your conscience...you can go on and completely delete all my posts if you want, the way Anna (DF) did, or you can keep them as a reminder to yourself only, a reminder that once in your life, your thoughts were challenged and you had the chance to re-think. The day we all meet our Lord we shall have to answer not only for our deeds but also for out inner thoughts.
farewell
Hon, don't flatter yourself. I've had my thoughts challenged many, many, many times in my life. Reading and replying to your particular blatherings doesn't even spark a single extra neuron. Better luck next time.
DeleteAnd yet another bunch of assumptions that are all 100% dead wrong.
ReplyDeleteAs just one example, my church doesn't have a single priest, never mind multiple priests, and my denomination does not consider it a priest's job to interpret the Bible for the poor helpless laypeople.
As for "American Jews who have made aliyah", let me just say that there are things you don't know about me, my family, or my friends.
Finally, I find it interesting, but, at this point, not extraordinary, that you judge the "objectivity" of a statement by whether it fits your beliefs, rather than how common, how well-supported, or how truthful it is.
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